In this timely kōrero conversation, I sit down with counsellor, community organiser, facilitator and educator Gaayathri to reflect on empathy, solidarity and resistance in the context of the Definitions of Woman and Man Amendment Bill in Aotearoa New Zealand. 

We explore why attempts to narrowly define ‘woman’ and ‘man’ are not acts of protection, but forms of exclusion that can harm intersex, trans, non-binary, gender-diverse people, and ultimately all of us. The conversation moves beyond simple opposition to ask deeper questions, such as Where does fear come from? Who benefits from confusion? How do we respond with both political clarity and relational empathy? 

Gaayathri offers a powerful framing of empathy as a ‘360-degree concept’. The one that asks us to stand firmly with those harmed, while also understanding how fear and uncertainty are being used for political gain. The episode also reflects on coloniality, feminisms, safety, and the responsibility of cisgender people to show up, in the context of the current Bill being proposed, through submissions, conversations, relationships, and solidarity. 

At its heart, this episode asks: Does exclusion ever make anyone safer? And if not, what kind of courage, tenderness and action do these times require from us? 

Email: fromwoundingtohealingandtransforming@outlook.com 

Music: Free music for podcasts from Transistor FM

Citation: Cayathri & Gaayathri. (2026). When Protection Becomes Exclusion. The Hello Frequency, A Lifestyle Podcast. 

Remember, in a world where discord echoes loudly, let empathy be our pluriversal language!